The following FRONTLINE interview, which lasted five hours and spanned two sessions, took place at his composing room at Prasad Studios and his newly constructed, aesthetically sensitive house at T.Nagar, Madras.
Some excerpts...
Frontline : Why do you avoid journalists and critics?
Ilaiyaraaja : Why should I meet journalists and critics? First if the critics assume that they know music, they can straight evaluate my music and write about it, no one is going to prevent it. If they don't know music, I have nothing to talk to them about. I am not avoiding out of any fear of controversy or anything of that sort. All these critics approach me with a hell of preconceived notions. They literally use me as a mouthpiece to voice their notions about music. Why should I give room for this?
Frontline : What is your view about music?
Ilaiyaraaja : To me, music is nothing but fraud. The moment you play all the seven notes, music is completed. Then going on repeating it - in different permutations and combinations - is nothing short of cheating. The person who successfully cheats a large audience for an extended period is called the "big" composer. Genuine music, to me, is the one which has no purpose. It should be as natural and as purposeless as the flow of the river. I have a purpose in creating my music. The purpose is business. Saint Thyagaraja sang songs to attain God. So even he had a purpose for his music. At least, he never sold his music. But take a farmer for instance. While ploughing, he spurts into a crescendo of music with no purpose. That is true music.
Frontline : Will the vidwans and musicologists agree with your view about music?
Ilaiyaraaja : Please tell me, who are the vidwans and musicologists? Saint Thyagaraaja, who spent his whole life as a wandering singer, sang his heart and soul out. The people who learn 15 krithis of that saintand practise them for their lifetime call themselves vidwans and musicologists. I have listened to all these living vidwans. There is always a tone of arrogance mightiness ringing in their voice and style of singing. I am very sure that Thyagaraja swamigal wouldn't have sung in this manner. His approach must have been the most simple, the most lucid and the most spontaneous. That is missing in the concerts. (Ilaiyaraaja sings akrithi to explain his contention). Therefore, there is no need for me to convince them.
Frontline : Then how do you define music?
Ilaiyaraaja : Music is nothing but sound. There is music in the bark of the dog. There is music in the walk of every human being. Music is not a subject to be discussed. It has to be experienced. The universe is one which has its own rhythm pattern, and it goes on in a cyclic fashion without losing its equilibrium. Similarly, sound is ultimately a solitary note. It is not ascending. It is not descending. It is not vertical. Nor is it sinusoidal. It is dynamic. Yet this dynamism defies our general perception. We human beings have lots of limitations. We are able to perceive only the sounds within the audible frequency. There are notes above and below that. We forget them. Man has fragmented this solitary note into seven notes of the octave. Listen to the howl of the dog. Doesn't it have a swara prashta? Sa Re Ga.(Ilaiyaraaja sings and shows the similarity).
Frontline : There are various systems in music - like Carnatic, Hindustani,Western, tribal and folk. And every system has its own schools. Which system do you think is the most well developed one?
Ilaiyaraaja : I do not like to make these types of value judgements. The person who assumes the role of a judge should be extremely well versed in the various systems of music which he compares. A person who compares and rates Carnatic music higher than light music should know both the systems. But people who dismiss light music here do not know both the systems. Saying Hindustani is superior is superior to Carnatic, and even in Hindustani, Drupad is superior to Thumri or Khayal, opera is superior to symphony, sounds utter nonsense. No one knows all the systems of music thoroughly and hence no one is qualified to be a judge. But every one of passes value judgements about one music or the other. Further, to me, at a different level, all these systems and schools appear imaginary.
Frontline : Your notion about music is reflected in your work. The list is endless. Do the producers and directors immediately accept your experimentations?
Ilaiyaraaja : Now I am a saleable commodity. Above that, I have a reputation on which the producers and directors have faith. My commercial viability, coupled with my reputation, gives me enough freedom to assert my right as a composer. They have confidence that if I do something, it would somehow reach the wider public. But I have the responsibility of proper films for experimentation. I cannot just throw away my labour in a gutter. So selecting producers and directors is my own prerogative.
Frontline : Are you prepared to support new directors who want to make experimental films?
Ilaiyaraaja : Definitely, yes. But before that, what is experiment? I don't understand. Most of the experiments never take people into consideration. There cannot be an experiment without people. It is indulgence. I don't subscribe to it. People who have listened to my music and studied it will notice that I have popularised the various elements of Indian and Western classical music by slightly diluting them. A rich harmony is taken to a rickshaw-puller by adding a folk element to it. 'Marimari Ninne' and 'Maha Ganapathim' are popular among the villagers not because of any vidwans. They are popular because I have used them in a proper manner. To me, experiment means taking things on a high pedestal to the masses in such a way that they will accept them. Other than this, all experiments are a process of fooling oneself and the general public.
Frontline : Who is the composer you like most?
Ilaiyaraaja : Bach. The reason is that he composed music in the formative days of Western classical music. There are three different types of counterpoint among which writing invertible counterpoints is the most difficult one. His compositions are so complete with every note falling in the right place with amazing mathematical precision. That is his greatness.
Frontline : Do you think you have the right recognition? Are you happy with your two (now three) national awards?
Ilaiyaraaja : I have not been recognised by this Government to which I pay my tax happily. The national awards don't mean much. It made no difference to me. The only recognition I have is that South Indians throughout the world listen to my music. But this doesn't help me even buy a train ticket on the emergency quota! I don't have any good quality instruments to record my music. I cannot even get the basic requirements to function as a musician. This is the recognition I get in my own country.
source: The Frontline (1989)
Some excerpts...
Frontline : Why do you avoid journalists and critics?
Ilaiyaraaja : Why should I meet journalists and critics? First if the critics assume that they know music, they can straight evaluate my music and write about it, no one is going to prevent it. If they don't know music, I have nothing to talk to them about. I am not avoiding out of any fear of controversy or anything of that sort. All these critics approach me with a hell of preconceived notions. They literally use me as a mouthpiece to voice their notions about music. Why should I give room for this?
Frontline : What is your view about music?
Ilaiyaraaja : To me, music is nothing but fraud. The moment you play all the seven notes, music is completed. Then going on repeating it - in different permutations and combinations - is nothing short of cheating. The person who successfully cheats a large audience for an extended period is called the "big" composer. Genuine music, to me, is the one which has no purpose. It should be as natural and as purposeless as the flow of the river. I have a purpose in creating my music. The purpose is business. Saint Thyagaraja sang songs to attain God. So even he had a purpose for his music. At least, he never sold his music. But take a farmer for instance. While ploughing, he spurts into a crescendo of music with no purpose. That is true music.
Frontline : Will the vidwans and musicologists agree with your view about music?
Ilaiyaraaja : Please tell me, who are the vidwans and musicologists? Saint Thyagaraaja, who spent his whole life as a wandering singer, sang his heart and soul out. The people who learn 15 krithis of that saintand practise them for their lifetime call themselves vidwans and musicologists. I have listened to all these living vidwans. There is always a tone of arrogance mightiness ringing in their voice and style of singing. I am very sure that Thyagaraja swamigal wouldn't have sung in this manner. His approach must have been the most simple, the most lucid and the most spontaneous. That is missing in the concerts. (Ilaiyaraaja sings akrithi to explain his contention). Therefore, there is no need for me to convince them.
Frontline : Then how do you define music?
Ilaiyaraaja : Music is nothing but sound. There is music in the bark of the dog. There is music in the walk of every human being. Music is not a subject to be discussed. It has to be experienced. The universe is one which has its own rhythm pattern, and it goes on in a cyclic fashion without losing its equilibrium. Similarly, sound is ultimately a solitary note. It is not ascending. It is not descending. It is not vertical. Nor is it sinusoidal. It is dynamic. Yet this dynamism defies our general perception. We human beings have lots of limitations. We are able to perceive only the sounds within the audible frequency. There are notes above and below that. We forget them. Man has fragmented this solitary note into seven notes of the octave. Listen to the howl of the dog. Doesn't it have a swara prashta? Sa Re Ga.(Ilaiyaraaja sings and shows the similarity).
Frontline : There are various systems in music - like Carnatic, Hindustani,Western, tribal and folk. And every system has its own schools. Which system do you think is the most well developed one?
Ilaiyaraaja : I do not like to make these types of value judgements. The person who assumes the role of a judge should be extremely well versed in the various systems of music which he compares. A person who compares and rates Carnatic music higher than light music should know both the systems. But people who dismiss light music here do not know both the systems. Saying Hindustani is superior is superior to Carnatic, and even in Hindustani, Drupad is superior to Thumri or Khayal, opera is superior to symphony, sounds utter nonsense. No one knows all the systems of music thoroughly and hence no one is qualified to be a judge. But every one of passes value judgements about one music or the other. Further, to me, at a different level, all these systems and schools appear imaginary.
Frontline : Your notion about music is reflected in your work. The list is endless. Do the producers and directors immediately accept your experimentations?
Ilaiyaraaja : Now I am a saleable commodity. Above that, I have a reputation on which the producers and directors have faith. My commercial viability, coupled with my reputation, gives me enough freedom to assert my right as a composer. They have confidence that if I do something, it would somehow reach the wider public. But I have the responsibility of proper films for experimentation. I cannot just throw away my labour in a gutter. So selecting producers and directors is my own prerogative.
Frontline : Are you prepared to support new directors who want to make experimental films?
Ilaiyaraaja : Definitely, yes. But before that, what is experiment? I don't understand. Most of the experiments never take people into consideration. There cannot be an experiment without people. It is indulgence. I don't subscribe to it. People who have listened to my music and studied it will notice that I have popularised the various elements of Indian and Western classical music by slightly diluting them. A rich harmony is taken to a rickshaw-puller by adding a folk element to it. 'Marimari Ninne' and 'Maha Ganapathim' are popular among the villagers not because of any vidwans. They are popular because I have used them in a proper manner. To me, experiment means taking things on a high pedestal to the masses in such a way that they will accept them. Other than this, all experiments are a process of fooling oneself and the general public.
Frontline : Who is the composer you like most?
Ilaiyaraaja : Bach. The reason is that he composed music in the formative days of Western classical music. There are three different types of counterpoint among which writing invertible counterpoints is the most difficult one. His compositions are so complete with every note falling in the right place with amazing mathematical precision. That is his greatness.
Frontline : Do you think you have the right recognition? Are you happy with your two (now three) national awards?
Ilaiyaraaja : I have not been recognised by this Government to which I pay my tax happily. The national awards don't mean much. It made no difference to me. The only recognition I have is that South Indians throughout the world listen to my music. But this doesn't help me even buy a train ticket on the emergency quota! I don't have any good quality instruments to record my music. I cannot even get the basic requirements to function as a musician. This is the recognition I get in my own country.
source: The Frontline (1989)
2 comments:
Missed ur poetic reflections...
I spent a good deal of my last weekend exploring and downloading south Indian music, mainly composed by Rehman and Ilaiyaraaja. They had had their 'golden period' in 80s, in movies as well as in music. Incidently, that period was 'dark phase' of Hindi film music, if not cinema as a whole.
I found this interview interesting. Apart from being a prolific composer, this guy is widely considered to be a genius who makes his music on paper!
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